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Politics
Mar 18, 2016 22:39:11 GMT
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Post by Moz on Mar 18, 2016 22:39:11 GMT
Jeez....
Just how shitty are the disability PIP cuts in benefits, if dark overlord of the uncaring Ian Duncan Smith is willing to resign over them?
Or.....is it just a ploy? An excuse so he can campaign more on the British exit of Europe? Either way, it's fascinating...
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Post by geof on Mar 19, 2016 9:56:57 GMT
Jeez.... Just how shitty are the disability PIP cuts in benefits, if dark overlord of the uncaring Ian Duncan Smith is willing to resign over them? Or.....is it just a ploy? An excuse so he can campaign more on the British exit of Europe? Either way, it's fascinating... My thoughts exactly.....they've already started preparing the way for a climbdown. It's almost as though he thought he'd better resign quick before the policy is dropped anyway.
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Post by Raffles on Mar 19, 2016 14:06:01 GMT
And yet someone as rich as Richard Branson or Paul Mccartney still is entitled to a free bus pass no matter how lttle they need it.
It's so obvious:
The young don't vote in big numbers- shaft them
The disabled struggle to get out to vote- shaft them
you get the idea
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Politics
Mar 19, 2016 21:51:15 GMT
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Post by ethereal on Mar 19, 2016 21:51:15 GMT
I have perhaps been reading too many conspiracy websites but I'm more concerned with the erosion of our freedoms particularly of speech that seems to be systemic rather than party specific. www.theguardian.com/law/2013/sep/30/conservitives-scrap-human-rights-actThen there's the Regulation of Investigatory Powers Act(2000) (surveillance), the Prevention Of Terrorism Act(2005) (detention without trial) and the Justice and Security Act(2013) (Closed Material Procedures) just to name a few. The screwing of vulnerable peoples support is an emotive distraction. Anyone got any tin foil?
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Post by Moz on Mar 20, 2016 9:08:51 GMT
I get what you are saying, Mr Ethereal....but saying the PIP benifit payments being cut is a distraction is a bit........simplistic? ESPECIALLY to those who need it to live on whilst they try to integrate in society. Those 600,000 people most vunerable due to no fault of their own, and who will lose on average £3300 a year..... No to rant or anything....I also read a piece in the Guardian (obviously, the ONLY news source you need, right?) which were giving their opinion on the budget. And they said an interesting thing. This government have penalised those in council homes which have an extra room with the Bedroom Tax, yet they give the people who are wealthy enough to own their own homes tax cuts & incentives to hire out their rooms out in Air B&B. That just seems wrong to me.... www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/mar/16/the-guardian-view-on-the-budget-a-poorer-country-a-diminished-chancellorI realise im JUST as bad as those who only look at the Daily Mail for their news, and the Guardian views are skewed into reinforcing what i believe anyways etc etc...but.....well....i DO also read the times sometimes....and, you know.....9 times out of 10, they are right....
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Politics
Mar 20, 2016 12:25:35 GMT
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Post by ethereal on Mar 20, 2016 12:25:35 GMT
I've yet to find a truly unbiased news source, and I often find things are more simple than people make out. I try to find arguments from both sides through Google and weigh up the arguments. Obviously I'm also biased by my own views and try to find arguments to support them. Human Rights (although the ease with which they can be suspended suggest they are privileges not rights or that certain members of society are not human) are an issue close to my heart, although I'd rather not go into why.
Anyway, speaking for myself I cope better with too little money than I do having to check what I say in case I offend someone. This is from experience not just idle speculation.
So agree to disagree on this matter?
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Politics
Mar 20, 2016 22:29:55 GMT
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Post by Moz on Mar 20, 2016 22:29:55 GMT
No need to 'agree to disagree' at all, really. I concur that the erosion of human rights legislation is a problem. Quite scarily so. I was just maybe suggesting that disabled people on the bread line would be much more worried about three and a bit grand being taken away from them, seemingly to fund a tax cut for middle & high income earners. That's all.
But yeah.....the way this government and representatives therein discuss the "needless bureaucracy" of having to obey the European Court of human rights is quite worrying. And sad.
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Politics
Mar 21, 2016 11:12:21 GMT
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Post by ethereal on Mar 21, 2016 11:12:21 GMT
My original response was more to Raffles post about shafting people who don't vote, but the Human Rights thing affects everyone (especially anyone who disagrees with the establishment) and that it's not just the Conservatives that have been eroding our freedoms. Labour have had a large part to play as well and the coalition only slowed things slightly. I was on income support for many years (mental health issues, I have drugs that work now). The worst part of it for me was having to justify your illness to a hostile doctor especially when he starts the examination with comments like "I think most of the people I see are perfectly able to work but it's not up to me". It doesn't help with recovery when your thinking of cutting up just to prove you're ill because you haven't the energy to argue your case. The money was never enough to live off without major sacrifices (why I've never learnt to drive, not good in the countryside). So yeah, interesting.
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Post by born in the fifties on Mar 21, 2016 21:47:54 GMT
Jeez.... Just how shitty are the disability PIP cuts in benefits, if dark overlord of the uncaring Ian Duncan Smith is willing to resign over them? Or.....is it just a ploy? An excuse so he can campaign more on the British exit of Europe? Either way, it's fascinating... Given how this is going a few days later, I'm not sure fascinating is the first word that comes to mind. Frankly, I find it gets more worrying by the day as to how this could play out, as the ultimate disaster scenario hoves into view. OK, its sh*t enough what we have at the moment, but imagine what if Brexit wins, Cameron and Osborne are goners (yes, 3 cheers), and replaced by a Boris Johnson, Chris Grayling, Ian Duncan Smith, Michael Gove, Liam Fox led government (oh, was a bit premature with the 3 cheers there). So it seems we are either stuck with what we've got (bad) or a different bunch of conservatives (worse).
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Politics
Mar 21, 2016 22:06:52 GMT
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Post by Moz on Mar 21, 2016 22:06:52 GMT
OR.......a 'resurgent' labour party?
Stop sniggering at the back....
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Politics
Mar 21, 2016 23:48:31 GMT
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Post by ethereal on Mar 21, 2016 23:48:31 GMT
I vote for anarchy (the original sense of the word). I don't expect it to happen but none of the major parties seem to be meshing with my ideals. Conservatives have sound fiscal strategies but are evil, lib dems have the better social morals but no chance of winning an election. Labour are a joke. I'm getting a little tired of voting for the lesser of two evils. Surely I should be able to vote for the best not the least worst.
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Post by Raffles on Mar 22, 2016 3:06:21 GMT
I can't in all conscience vote for anarchy, but Chris's summary there is pretty spot on!
It may be uncool and unfashionable but what we really need is an electable, moderate, centre left party, with a mortal conscience but fiscal responsibility. I thought we were going to get one 20 years ago but then Iraq happened and it all went so badly wrong.
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Post by fiveuke on Mar 22, 2016 11:01:40 GMT
"I vote for anarchy." Brilliant!
By which electoral system will anarcho-votes be considered valid and aggregated to yield a constitutional result or policy referendum?
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Post by Moz on Mar 22, 2016 11:18:40 GMT
I think maybe, maybe a governemnt every so lightly left from the 'centre left' position would be lovely for me. Course, LOTS of votes are not represented in the UK. As much as i dig the SNP (although i WISH they would wanna love us, the UK, more...), it is very odd that, although in numbers they have 4.7% of the vote, they have 8.6% of the MPs in parliment. The Green party have 3.8% of the vote count only has 1 MP in parliment (0.2% of the total MP's). EVEN UKIP (the BNP with a gift voucher for Moss Bros, lest we forget) managed to fool 3881099 people enough to get them to vote for them in the UK, over 2 and a half times the total of votes than the SNP, yet only has 1 MP in parliment. SO the system is screwed, anyways.
Im getting off the original topic i started, arnt I. BAD MOZ!
SO.....yeah. I wish i was more interested in politics and the processes of politics when i was younger.
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Politics
Mar 22, 2016 12:35:05 GMT
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Moz likes this
Post by ethereal on Mar 22, 2016 12:35:05 GMT
"I vote for anarchy." Brilliant! By which electoral system will anarcho-votes be considered valid and aggregated to yield a constitutional result or policy referendum? Using the current system for general election with perhaps the deposition of fecal matter into the ballot box? Or just a spoilt ballot paper if you're poo-shy, as a vote for anarchy.
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Post by riverlodge on Mar 24, 2016 13:28:49 GMT
anyone else off to Scotland?
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Post by Eddytheviper on Mar 24, 2016 17:42:12 GMT
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Post by Raffles on Mar 25, 2016 11:21:51 GMT
Corbyn has a short term surge in (relative) popularity brought on by spectacular own goals by the Tories this week.
So will, he use this moment in the sun to hold the government properly to account, and to support a much needed optimistic campaign to stay in Europe.
No- he'll continue to behave like the juvenile deluded self-obsessed idiot he is.
Osborne and Cameroon are not destryiojng politics- they are behaving exactly as you would expect Tories to. It is Corbyn who is doing the real damage by utterly failing to provide a credible opposition.
Time for everyone to grow up before it's too late!
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Post by daemon on Mar 26, 2016 11:22:22 GMT
I find it odd how often the conservatives go after things that most people are okay with and yet remain the strongest party in the UK.
BBC, NHS, disabled people, teachers, doctors - they fucking hate the lot of them, and yet somehow the tories were re-elected.
I think that the sad fact we all have to accept is that the majority of British people are dim and get what they deserve.
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Post by Raffles on Mar 27, 2016 16:51:48 GMT
I find it odd how often the conservatives go after things that most people are okay with and yet remain the strongest party in the UK. BBC, NHS, disabled people, teachers, doctors - they fucking hate the lot of them, and yet somehow the tories were re-elected. I think that the sad fact we all have to accept is that the majority of British people are dim and get what they deserve. You only need to look at the press most people choose to read to work that one out!
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Post by fiveuke on Mar 30, 2016 8:22:10 GMT
I used to try and be really engaged with politics, and felt I had something to say and contribute that actually mattered and might affect things. Now I feel that nothing I think or believe actually has any chance of creating an impact, or will make any difference whatsoever to Westminster, so I may as well eliminate the stress of worrying about any of it. If you want to make a difference, go and spend a few hours a week at a food bank or youth charity or something - all that this hating Cameron or Corbyn will achieve is high blood pressure and a feeling of powerlessness.
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Post by daemon on Apr 2, 2016 14:33:03 GMT
I totally feel like that sometimes as well but have my moments of optimism.
We're living in a strange time in history as, thanks to the internet, people are able to mobilise for or against issues they really care about and I think it's fair to say that groups like 38degrees and sumofus, despite their limitations, have had some big results. At the same time though, we're at a record low in terms of the public's engagement with politics and as a result people don't really give a shit what's being done to them.
I'm not all-out anti-conservative and I'm certainly not completely pro-labour but our government's callous attitude towards the most vulnerable in society during this decade is frightening and mirrors an international trend of wealth being funneled to the wealthiest.
In Britain, I think the biggest problem is that people don't really consider the issues and buy in to out-dated ideas of the parties. People think the conservatives are the party who look after the middle class's interests which is no longer true and are happy to dismiss anyone left of Cameron as pinko idealists. It would be interesting to see a statistic for the number of people who vote the same party as their parents as, from outside at least, political choice in Britain often seems to run along the same lines as chosing a football team.
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Post by Eddytheviper on Apr 5, 2016 15:53:00 GMT
Been really interesting seeing the fallout from this Panama Tax scandal paper leak. Just read how the Icelandic Prime Minister has fallen from this. Will it cause changes to the Conservative Govt in power? Can't imagine so but, proves yet more of the 'them and us' issue.
Who knew the rich and powerful did dodgy dealings, what a surprise it is to all of us!
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Politics
Apr 8, 2016 7:22:43 GMT
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Post by Moz on Apr 8, 2016 7:22:43 GMT
Could it happen? Possibly? Mr Cameron go? Probably not....but still....it looks very dodgy.
And, if you ignore the possible ramifications with regards to the EU campaign (which seems fucked beforehand. Why are 'we' being so negative? Stop focusing on the 'doom & gloom' of leaving and emphasise the good of staying, fuckwits!!! But I digress....), it's all very fascinating and funny in a 'gallows humour' type way.
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Post by Raffles on Apr 8, 2016 8:03:33 GMT
Could it happen? Possibly? Mr Cameron go? Probably not....but still....it looks very dodgy. And, if you ignore the possible ramifications with regards to the EU campaign (which seems fucked beforehand. Why are 'we' being so negative? Stop focusing on the 'doom & gloom' of leaving and emphasise the good of staying, fuckwits!!! But I digress....), it's all very fascinating and funny in a 'gallows humour' type way. Until his majority get whittled away by by-elections, Camron will only go if his own MPs turn on him. And they will not turn on him over Panama since I suspect almost every one of them will have their own tax efficient schemes in some form or other. From what I have read, his "misdemeanour" is trivial compared to some of the other revelations. So unless there is something spectacular in there that has not come to light yet, the only way he'll go in the short term is over Europe.
But please don't vote Brexit to get Cameron out. Because that will just let real swivel eyed loons into power. I totally understand people's hatred of what Cameron stands for (over-privileged ruling class etc) but the short term he is arguably the lesser of evils
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